Episode 7 - Cecilia Rene Samples A Scandal With a Scoundrel

FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Katherine Grant: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast. The place for you to find new historical romance books and authors to fan over. I'm award winning historical romance author Katherine Grant, and each week I'm inviting fellow authors to come on and share a little bit of their work and themselves.

[00:00:21] They'll read a sample of one of their books, and then I'm going to ask them a bunch of questions. By the end of the episode, you'll have a sense of what they write and who they are. Hopefully, you and I both will have something new to read. So what are we waiting for? Let's get into this week's episode.

[00:00:36] All right. Well, today I am joined by Cecilia Rene. Cecilia is a Detroit native who attended Grambling State University and then ventured to the Big Apple with nothing but $120 to her name. And somehow she survived. After working nearly 15 years as a post producer in the New York advertising world, Cecilia continued her love for writing with screenplays until finally she met a group of like minded individuals online before she ventured into publishing herself.

[00:01:07] Always an avid reader of romance and all things spicy, Cecilia fell in love with historical romance and craved to tell her own stories. When she's not writing in her office with her very loud snoring companion, Sadie the Pitbull, Cece can be found hiking the trails of Austin where she now resides with her giant teenager and grumpy husband.

[00:01:28] Cecelia loves romance, humor, and all things spicy. For this reason, she will always give you a happily ever after. Cece, I'm so excited to have you today.

[00:01:39] Cecilia Rene: Thank you. I need to get you to read that for me all the time.

[00:01:45] Katherine Grant: It's a fun one. So what are you going to read for us? And can you tell us what kind of scene you're going to set up?

[00:01:52] Cecilia Rene: Well, I am going to read from a scandal with a scoundrel. My July release a part of the wicked widow's multi author compilation. The scene I'm going to set up is so, it's such a funny scene to me, so I hope it's funny. But the scene I'm going to set up is Winnie and Richard have just finished having some sex.

[00:02:15] And Richard finds out a thing that Winnie did not tell him about and he's not happy. And so I'm going to get the, the end of Winnie's POV and go into Richard's POV which is just kind of funny to me. And I'm like, can you read sex scenes? But I, I'm going to pick it up at the end, so we'll see how it goes.

[00:02:36] All right. I'm excited.

[00:02:37] Katherine Grant: Take it away.

[00:02:39] Cecilia Rene: As she caught her breath, it was then that Winnie noticed she was at the foot of the bed and not the head. How did that happen? Her mask was askew, but still on, she strained it, considering removing it all together. Why was she hiding from him, when he had just had the most intimate experience of her life?

[00:03:00] She no longer wanted to hide herself from him. Richard rose off the bed, and Winnie could not even move to see where he had gone. He returned momentarily, the bed dipping from his sizable weight, as a cool cloth touched her skin, cleaning off the evidence of their activities. Victoria, his voice full of concern, had her turning toward him.

[00:03:24] Looking down at him, she saw what had him concerned. Proof of her virginity coated his now flaccid member. Oh, wouldn't he have forgotten about that one minor impediment of hers? Abruptly, she sat up, needing to be out of the room. Why didn't you tell me? He asked. Watching as she rose, searching for her gown.

[00:03:47] It wasn't of importance. She bent down to step into her dress. Not important? I just fucked you like you were a strumpet. A strumpet? How is that not important to mention? He sat up on the bed, his grey eyes now full of rage. Why does- why does Madame Delacour have a virgin working here? I'm sorry, Richard.

[00:04:08] Goodbye. Victoria, wait! Where are you going? He asked, rising off the bed. I must go, she turned toward the door, opening it and running out of the room as fast as her legs would allow with her gown practically falling off her body. Winnie did not stop to see if he was following her. As she noticed the late hours, she saw the other rooms were open.

[00:04:32] Some occupants coming out into the hall, she did not stop to see who they were, she just kept running. It was time for her to return to her life and put the entire ordeal behind her. Now Richard. Richard tripped over his bare feet as cool air massaged his most intimate body parts. He tried to catch his goddess as she dashed out of the Gretna Green room and down the hall.

[00:04:58] Offending her was not his intention, but he couldn't help his anger. If only he had known she was pure, he wouldn't have been such a bloody beast. Damn it to hell. He was a fool. That she was unbearably tight for a woman of her chosen profession did nothing to deter him. It never occurred to Richard that she could be a virgin.

[00:05:19] A virgin! His legs shook beneath him as he walked down the hall. The thought of her sheath around his cock nearly brought him to his knees. In truth, he had never been with a virgin before. Even as an innocent himself, Richard had always been with women of experience. Dear God, man, put that thing away, the Duke of St. Clair exclaimed, waving his hand toward the lower half of Richard's body. Richard looked down, noticing that he was indeed naked as the day he was born. Damn it. He couldn't think. He had to find her. He needed to see her again. St. Clair, always a pleasure. Richard grumbled at the other dude who was much younger than him before turning around and walking back down the hall.

[00:06:04] Ignoring the whistles and the gasps of the few occupants exiting their own room, Richard rushed back to the Gretna Green room. He wasn't shy. In fact, Richard was rather proud of his body. A regular amount of exercise, fencing, riding, and on occasion, bare knuckle boxing kept him fit. What in God's teeth are you doing?

[00:06:24] Hendershot rushed up behind Richard as he entered the room in search of his clothing. I need to find her right now. Have you seen her? She was wearing a red gown and gold mask with flowing blonde hair. Richard rushed out the words, pulling up his breeches and going in search of his shirt and waistcoat.

[00:06:42] Are you speaking of the woman you were entertaining in the ballroom? The reason you forced me to switch rooms with you, his friend, who was currently free of his own mask, raised an eyebrow at Richard and Challenge. You wanted to switch rooms with me the first, you wanted to switch rooms with me first, if I remember correctly.

[00:07:04] Not caring for his stockings, which he had discarded from before Victoria entered the room, Richard slipped on his black Hessians, marching out into the hall. Where do you think you are going? Hendershot took hold of his arm. Stopping him from sprinting down the hall. Release me, Harrison, he said coldly, using his friend's given name, which he never did.

[00:07:26] Richard could not delay. He had to go find her and take her away from this place. She was his now, of that, he was absolutely certain. Oh, the drama. It is just so much, it tickles me to death for some reason. It's like my favorite scene. I'm just so giddy. I can barely read it. I'm like,

[00:07:46] Katherine Grant: Well, it feels like a Cinderella story, but instead of leaving her shoe behind, she leaves him naked.

[00:07:52] Cecilia Rene: Yes. And that is so funny you said that because I'm writing a Cinderella story and I'm like, man, it really feels like a scandal with a scoundrel a little bit. So I'm writing a black Cinderella story now for another anthology. Ooh, that's exciting. Oh my God. I'm not gonna be the the novella queen. I am not.

[00:08:14] I'm putting my foot down 2024. Is it ? I gotta finish this series behind me. I have to finish this series, but I keep signing up for all these novellas and I'm like, girl, you need to sit down. Need to sit down. .

[00:08:31] Katherine Grant: Well, I have a bunch of questions for you. Before we get into them, let's take a brief pause for our sponsors.

[00:08:37] Hey samplers! It's Katherine Grant. I am interrupting this episode to tell you how to get a free book, the Viscount Without Virtue. First, go to bit.ly/hrs fan, go through the checkout process. This is where you add the promo code, HR SFAN as your last step. Just download your free ebook to your ereader.

[00:09:10] Alright, well let's get back to this week's episode.

[00:09:12] Okay, so we are back with Cecilia Rene, who just read a very spicy little segment of her book and I have many questions for you. I'm trying to decide where to start. You mentioned in your bio that you started writing screenplays and you also mentioned before we started that you have also done some fanfic.

[00:09:33] So I'm curious, how do How do the craft of screenplays and the world of fanfic inform your writing of historical romance novels?

[00:09:45] Cecilia Rene: That is funny. I actually keep this one thing that I was told because I, as I was writing my two little screenplays in one TV series, but so I was, shopping them around to all these contests and stuff, and I got really far up in one particular big contest called Scriptapalooza, and I made it to the finals, and they gave me back some feedback, and one of the feedbacks was that I'm very, I'm a very good, I'm very good at dialogue, and I have a clear ear for voice, and that one always stays with me, because I'm like, yeah, that's true, and so, So I take that and like keep it and that's and I feel and to this day I feel like that's the strong point of my writing is the dialogue portion because I can hear their voices so clearly in my head so that one always stays with me and from the script world and another thing that stays with me is Which is kind of crazy, but is the three act structure always stays with me from the script world because I always know act one, act two, act three, like those always, like, those are embedded in me and I take that with me here.

[00:10:56] It's funny, the other day I was like sprinting and my friend, she writes her stuff in five acts and that was kind of like foreign to me. I was like, What? But I'm so good at the three act, I can't pick up another thing. Like, listen, the three act was beat into me. I need to stick with that. But I was like, man, that's interesting.

[00:11:16] I wonder, could I? But we ain't trying nothing new at this moment, because we got six books to write in 2024, and they gotta be written, and I'll get stuck if I get stuck. It'll be like, squirrel, what? So, no. And then, with fanfiction, That's a whole different beast and that's where I kind of met all my really, really good friends.

[00:11:37] I was there for a long time. Nine to ten years. The Bachelor Duke was a fan fiction first. And then I said What if I, this is how I do everything, what if I move to Texas, what if I move to New York, what if I write a historical novel?

[00:11:57] Katherine Grant: Listen, my, my folder on my computer for my first historical, for all of my historical romance stuff is literally called historical romance.

[00:12:04] Can I do it? So, you know, we gotta ask ourselves these questions. We gotta.

[00:12:10] Cecilia Rene: It's just, you know, we join organizations, though, that have classes, and that's the fun part. It's like, we learn stuff. So, and I love learning stuff. So I guess the one thing I took from fan fiction, I don't know, that one's a rough one because I took, I took all my screenwriting stuff with me everywhere I go.

[00:12:30] So much so I was writing with this writer once, or trying to, and she kind of got upset with me and she said, you write like a screenwriter. And I said, well I am a screenwriter. So, so what you want to do about it, you know, like what are we talking about? And I, she was a fan fiction writer and that was kind of discouraging because she was like and I was like, well, but I kept going.

[00:12:51] And with my, with my fan fiction, I kind of write everything with fan fiction. I got a mob. I got a I got a older man, younger woman, and these are all about very popular too. So, you know, it's just, I think with that, I just, with my writing, it's like, I'm not afraid to try anything is the one thing that my fan fiction writing kind of leads me to, but I feel like I was right.

[00:13:17] I was reading my proof of my latest novella that's coming out in December, and I was reading that. And I was like, am I too stiff? Like my, my most popular. I don't know if you noticed, but I really want to write hot. I really do. And I'm like, but my most popular hottest fanfic was like this weird kind of, kind of deady type.

[00:13:45] And it was like, and I'm like, and that was the hottest. And if I read it now, I'm like, Oh my God, this is so hot. I can't believe I wrote this. And I'm like, I want to go, like, I want to go there, but maybe not to the daddy world again, cause I don't know what I was doing, but I think it was like, I think it was a contest and I was like, okay, I'll do it.

[00:14:03] And again, I'll just do anything and I did it well. So but I was reading my latest one and I was like, Do I need to let loose a little bit? But then I read the sex scene of this one and I was like, oh, I think I'm all right. I think I'm all right.

[00:14:18] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I definitely sounds like you're more on the, you're, you're hitting the hot, spicy chili peppers.

[00:14:26] Cecilia Rene: I want to be, but sometimes, here's what it is, I want to be hot, right? I want to write hot, I like to read hot, but sometimes the story takes longer to get there, and I'm always true to the story. That is also my problem. I am always true to the story. So if, like in my book three for the Bachelor series, the girl was mad at the the heroine, the hero, the heroine was mad at the hero.

[00:14:56] All the way in book two, right? So we see them in book two and she don't even talk to him. So then we get to book three, their book, which I'm editing now, and it's like I'm like, listen, they need to have sex in chapter five. And my beta readers are like, she don't even talk to this dude. What are you talking about?

[00:15:13] I'm like, what are you talking about? We gotta get through this whole book. What are we doing here? This is what we doing here. But then I, you know, I had to really like. Look at it in my developmental editor Millie was like, she helped me out a lot because she was like, there has to be a reason for this highly intelligent chemist woman to like have sex with this dude, basically in chapter, I think it may, it might happen in chapter 11 or 12, but she only does it.

[00:15:43] I think she does it after the wedding, I think, in my head, but I haven't opened it in like a month. I gotta get back to it actually, because it comes out in March.

[00:15:54] This is the problem with my life. But it's like, I need, the story dictates me, right? So as much as I want to throw it in in chapter one, which I almost did it here, but then I stopped with a scandal with Iskandar. I stopped, I was like, because I knew, I was like going in, I was like, she is getting evicted.

[00:16:12] She's gonna come up with this grand idea to get pregnant by a stranger. So I knew that going in, even though it's a novella, I only had 35, 000 words. I was like, I can just throw it right at the top. But I couldn't, right? My outline wouldn't let me. And, you know, my conscience made me. So I do want to be. But again, I stay true to the story.

[00:16:34] I found so sad about it.

[00:16:37] Katherine Grant: That's what keeps it historical romance instead of erotica historical romance.

[00:16:41] Cecilia Rene: Exactly. So I'm not erotica. I don't even have that many sex scenes. The Bachelor Duke has one. Then Ruined has. Two or three. It's funny how I know every sex scene in my books though. And then I started getting, then I get a little more hotter with book three is gonna have like, I think we're at four.

[00:17:01] And then these little novellas, they all got like two of them and they way less words. I feel a little freer with them though, you know, the different worlds and I have to start in the, I almost gotta start in the middle with a novella, right? You just had one, so you know, you gotta start.

[00:17:17] Katherine Grant: It's different. I was going to ask you, how do you approach writing a novella versus a novel?

[00:17:23] Cecilia Rene: My friend Jenna Doyle, she always says she's she's contemporary, but she always goes with novellas. Start, you gotta start as close to the end as possible. Like, you gotta already be in it. And so, I always listen to her. I call her Denny. I always listen to her. And I'm like, Denny says you gotta start.

[00:17:44] Anytime I got a friend, an expert, like Louisa Cornell, I be like, Louisa Cornell said. Like, I'm like, Denny said. These people said this, you know, or and. I'm like, Denny said this. I gotta do that. So, I try to go in the middle. It's really Difficult because right now I'm starting the Cinderella story, but my outline is long, it's like really long.

[00:18:06] And I'm like, what is the problem? I know the Cinderella story, but then this is, and there's no sex in this outline yet, y'all, so I don't know what I'm gonna do. So I'm like, what is happening? Because I know the Cinderella story, but it felt like his part was kind of like lacking because, you know, you see Cinderella and it's like.

[00:18:26] They just fall in love with the ball, right? That's it. They fall in love depending on the version. The original version, she's at the ball, and they're in love. The Brandy version he sees her. He sees her. And then, he sees her once, and then he sees her at the ball, right? So there's two, and I've watched them both.

[00:18:45] So mine, I'm like, okay, what am I gonna do? Am I just going to stick to it? I was trying to stick to it, but then I needed more. I needed him because then that was my problem with this. When I'm proofreading now is that it was instant love. And I was like, something doesn't feel right. They fell in love with one day.

[00:19:04] And so I had to make it a second chance romance. Cause that was hard for me. And now with this one, I'm like, okay, I can't make this a second chance romance. What am I going to do so I spread it out a little bit to give it some breathing room and I have them Meeting like two or three other times before the ball, but now it's making it long But I'm not even going to like I'm not even gonna go crazy about it.

[00:19:27] I'm going to like write it out And see how we feel about it. And then if I have to speed up some part. Because I'm thinking that I really can't do the whole glasses slipper portion. You know, because it's a glove actually not. So it's a glove because this is for the gentlemen in gloves anthology.

[00:19:48] That so I'm trying to see if I'm going to do the, the part where he searches, or is it just going to be like, it's her, like, he knows it's her because they've met each other so many times, but it's also going to be another mass situation too. So I try to start as close as possible to answer your question, but it's always like a party, like trying to, especially if it's going to be like a love matches, like.

[00:20:12] Yeah. It's gonna be really quick.

[00:20:15] Katherine Grant: It's a big challenge because you have to pack in the world building, the character development, and the plot. And for it to be a satisfying romance, we have to believe that they have a happily ever after. And so, either they have to have already known each other, or you have to cover a lot of territory really fast.

[00:20:34] Cecilia Rene: Really fast. And then you gotta, it can't go too fast because somebody's gonna say something. Yeah. My friend, my friend Gina just read my my one book series within my quest and we were all at, we were out to dinner and she's like, I have one problem, ma'am. And I was like, what's your problem? And she's like, why isn't it longer?

[00:20:55] I'm like, Gina, please. Like, it's a novella. It's a novella. Okay. Bye. Bye. I had X amount of words and that's all I got, first of all. And then it's like, so at this point I'm trying to get all like use of all the words that I get. If I get 35,000 words, I want to be at 34 9 99. But it's so hard, especially if I'm like, 'cause most of the time I want to time constraint of my own doing.

[00:21:18] Like this last book, I was editing my book to the last second, right? Then I had to switch over and write, and now I'm. I'm outlining this other story, but I'm like, I got to write because this is due January 1st. And so, like, I got to go and I got to get it edited. I got to get it proved. I got to get it, I need to, I need to editors.

[00:21:41] Katherine Grant: So when you have all of these books and all these novellas, Do you feel like your inspiration is coming? Like, do you start with the trope? Do you start with the characters? Do you start with dialogue that's in your head? Like, where does it start?

[00:21:55] Cecilia Rene: Hmm. I think it start, that's Not with a trope, sometimes it starts with the characters if it's like a character from a different what happens to me a lot is if from a previous book or in a book that I'm writing, like some of these characters stand out, right?

[00:22:14] Sometimes people say, That I'm really good at secondary characters, right. I build them up so much and I did that a lot because I was trying to find a way to put characters of color in my, my very white series behind me, the Bachelors So I started playing this like a huge secondary character, black characters in there.

[00:22:35] And then when I made, when I made Secrets of the Marquess, I had decided, I loved it so much, I was like, Listen, I'm about to start making all my characters, at least the one character of color, I'm about to really make that happen, but, you know, this, this series is predominantly white, but then book four is all black, so that had already, I had already put that in play.

[00:22:57] And then I say, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm going to make all these novellas I'm signing up for, I'm going to make all the, like, at least these characters, at least the heroines, they're going to be heroines of color. That is about to happen. But then with Scandal with a Scoundrel, I must have did that before.

[00:23:15] I made this vow to myself, and I was like, Oh man, Winnie's white. Oh my goodness. What am I gonna do? So what did I do? I gave Winnie a crazy best friend, a black madam, that was just, just, just so wonderful. And so it starts off with Getting these characters from these other books, right, because her, the Black Madam Kitty, her book comes out in November in the second round of Wicked Widows, right?

[00:23:43] And so I'm like, oh my goodness, it really does start off with characters are like, taking it from other books, but also it starts like, in my head, I can come up with like It'd just be, if I read somebody else's book, it'd be like, what if, I like what they did there, but what if it was like this, or something like that, and I'd just take it and run with it the bachelor duke came from Watching a documentary on Chatsworth one day like, I get ideas from, I get ideas from, I get ideas from anything and I just go with it.

[00:24:14] I just go with it. It's just so crazy and I, and that's how I come up with, I, I, I'm full of ideas. It's really, it's really scary sometimes, I'm like, ooh, what if, what if, and then I'm like, you know what, you better sit down, like, I just keep coming up with them, and I didn't see how far it could take me.

[00:24:33] Katherine Grant: There's not enough time in the day to write all the stories that we have in our heads, right?

[00:24:37] Cecilia Rene: There is, I got a new one in my head, and boy I really want to research it first to see if it's, I'm like, should I tell you what it is? You wanna know what it is? Yeah. I'm kind of obsessed with it right now. So, you know, the Buccaneers. I really like the original Buccaneers, and then I was watching this new one, which is a little kind of different and more modern, of course. And I'm like, man, these, and the poor American actors are trying their hardest to do the language, but they can't really do the language. But but it is, it's still a pretty good show.

[00:25:09] I, I mean, if anything can grab my attention, because you see me, I'm everywhere, so I'm out if I don't like something. So I, I watched it all, all the episodes that are streaming now. But then I was sitting there and another idea came to me and I was like, but what if? What if they were like black heiresses?

[00:25:28] Like, I wonder if they existed. And so then I'm like, well you need to find them. So I talk to myself all the time, right, because I'm crazy. And I'm like, you need to find it. You need to find if there were black heiresses existed and did any go to London to get married and marry anyone in the aristocracy?

[00:25:48] Like, that would be huge, because I'm like, what if I had a series like that? Because everybody makes these series of these dollar princesses, but they're all white. But what if there were some that were black, you know? And it's, it's hard though, because you're like Cause they would take off, right? Because all the stuff they got to deal with in America, I would get on a boat in two seconds.

[00:26:08] Right. So I'm like, do they exist and can I find them? And so that's my new obsession right now. And just trying to find, just trying to see if I can find that story, but I just came up with this like the other day. I love it. I don't know if it's going to be something I can do. Thank you. And. I'm always looking for these stories because I need to see it, right?

[00:26:32] I need to, my imagination isn't like Beverly Jenkins or Vanessa Riley, like these, these like, they create these characters and it's just so wonderful, but I almost have to see that it was somebody like it. That actually existed like so, cause in the one I just was proofing it's called a ridicule for scandal.

[00:26:53] The father is a black inside in the British army. And I only found that out because I emailed you know, Bill Haggart and I was like, Hey, can you help me? I'm looking for something, but you know, trying to find a black soldier and he sent me a bunch of stuff. And I went digging and I was on this YouTube and then I found this black soldier like I had to I had to see that there was actually a person even though he has a very small part in my book, though, because he's just a father, but it's like I needed to see that this man could it

[00:27:26] have existed. Yeah, he could. So I need to see, I really need to see like kind of palatable things in my hand. Okay, they were there at least. Yeah. And that they did have a happily ever after and make it, you know, I could make their story and I can run with it. Then I can make their story. But even if they weren't there, I probably could still create me some black dollar princesses.

[00:27:49] Katherine Grant: Yeah, I feel like you will probably be able to find them, but even if you don't, I hope you do invent them, because why couldn't they exist?

[00:27:58] Cecilia Rene: Yeah, why couldn't they? That's true. That's true. Why couldn't they?

[00:28:01] Katherine Grant: It's time for our segment, Are You a Romantic? Are you a romantic?

[00:28:10] Which do you trust more? Your heart, your gut, or your brain? Do you believe in love at first sight?

[00:28:20] Cecilia Rene: No.

[00:28:22] Katherine Grant: Do you think there's a difference between lust and love? Yes. Do you believe in soulmates?

[00:28:36] Do you believe in true love and is it different from soulmates?

[00:28:40] Cecilia Rene: Hmm. I do believe in true love. I think it could be different from soulmates though because it might not be the person you're with and it may not be even romantic.

[00:28:51] Katherine Grant: True love with, it might be with someone who's not romantic or your soulmate would be someone you're not romantic.

[00:28:56] Cecilia Rene: True love.

[00:28:57] Katherine Grant: Okay. Oh, interesting. What makes an apology meaningful?

[00:29:02] Cecilia Rene: Hmm.

[00:29:07] Sincerity, and like, you just have to be really sincere, and, and you have your actions, it's all about your actions, right? If you say I'm sorry, your actions don't follow up when it didn't. It doesn't really mean anything, but if you're really sincere about it, and really, and your action follows it, and you're honest, because I'm all of, I'm the worst liar in the world, so I'm all about honesty, and I always have to lead with the truth.

[00:29:36] Like, I'm like, look, this is what happened. So, you know, you got to be sincere. Your actions have to follow it. And you have to be honest, and that is the true meaning of an apology, in my opinion. I like it.

[00:29:52] Katherine Grant: All right, and this is the final question. Why is romantic love important?

[00:29:59] Cecilia Rene: I mean, because we all need something to take us out of the dreary everyday life, the mundane.

[00:30:06] I mean, it's so important, right? And plus, don't you want to be with somebody happily ever after? Don't you? don't you though?

[00:30:18] Katherine Grant: Yes. All right. Well, I'm going to declare you, you're, I'm going to call you a pragmatic romantic.

[00:30:26] Cecilia Rene: Yeah.

[00:30:28] Katherine Grant: You're pretty romantic, but you also, I wasn't surprised that you said you didn't believe in love at first sight because you said you had trouble with the insta love trope, which I do too.

[00:30:37] Cecilia Rene: It's hard to believe. This guy right here is insta-love, he had a ball and he sees this girl, he had vowed never to marry for 10 years and all of a sudden he saw one girl and he's like, I'm getting married. So you know what? But that was the last time I did that. This time I couldn't do it with him, but I think the way it turned out actually was way better.

[00:31:00] Because then they had this history from five years ago. And once I get the rights back from it, I was thinking about doing a A before and a after. I mean, I don't know if I have time to write it.

[00:31:14] Katherine Grant: One day.

[00:31:16] Cecilia Rene: To be honest, if I wanted the book to come out this year. But I do think I want it to be like that.

[00:31:21] Like I can write five years before. And then this book that I just finished would just be plopped in the after. Nice. Maybe. I got all these ideas, here we go again.

[00:31:35] Katherine Grant: Well, Cece, thank you so much for joining me today. Oh, thanks for having me. How can our listeners or viewers find out more about you?

[00:31:44] Cecilia Rene: They can find out more about me at my website, which I always mix up because I'm a crazy person, but I believe it's CeciliaReneAuthor.

[00:31:52] com. And I'm always on Facebook as Cecilia Rene, I'm on Instagram as Cecilia Rene. Bye. And BookBub is Cecilia Rene. So all the places that Miss Cecilia Rene is, you can find me there. And I'm on my Amazon as Cecilia Rene.

[00:32:08] Katherine Grant: Well, this has been fantastic. I really appreciate it. Thank you again for giving me your time.

[00:32:14] Cecilia Rene: Thanks for having me. You're so wonderful to invite me.

[00:32:17] That's it for this

[00:32:21] Katherine Grant: week. Check out the show notes where I put links for my guests, myself, and the podcast. Until next week, happy reading.

[00:32:34] ​

Episode 1 - Katherine Grant Samples The Viscount Without Virtue

Transcript

[00:00:00] Katherine Grant: Welcome to the Historical Romance Sampler Podcast. I'm your host, Katherine Grant, an award winning historical romance author, and each week I am bringing on a different historical romance author to read a little bit of their work so you can sample it, and then for me to interview them to find out more about how they do what they do.

But since this is our special first episode, who I have with me today is not a historical romance author, but my very special, wonderful, loving, and supportive husband, Michael. And so what we're gonna do today is I'm gonna be the featured author and I will read from my work, The Viscount Without Virtue.

And then Michael is going to interview me with all the burning questions he's never asked me. So thanks for joining us, and let's get into the episode. So I'm going to read from the Viscount Without Virtue, which is book one in the Preston series. I partly chose this because I know it's One of your favorite books.

[00:00:55] Michael : It is my favorite book of yours.

[00:00:58] Katherine Grant: So in the Viscount Without [00:01:00] Virtue, the Preston family has realized that all of their aristocratic wealth comes from colonial imports and wealth from exploiting enslaved people. And so about 20, 30 years ago, the family decided to divest and they set up their estate as kind of a regency commune.

They only live off the land, and they welcome anyone to come live on the estate, including people who have felony records and who otherwise wouldn't be welcome in British society. And everyone who lives and works on the land shares the profits of the estate. And so in the Viscount Without Virtue, Max, the Viscount, shows up because he thinks this is It's pretty strange, way too radical, and he is determined to write an exposé proving that Northfield Hall is not as idyllic as it says.

He's pretty sure there must be some underhanded See the world there. aNd so to do this, he is posing [00:02:00] undercover as a man of all work who is back from Australia, and he somehow manages to get himself a job in the Northfield Hall Carpentry Workshop. The other person who works at the Northfield Hall Carpentry Workshop is Ellen Preston, the eldest daughter of the Preston family.

She's very interested in being hands on and knowing everyone on the estate, and she loves doing her carpentry. And so she has to share her tools with Max, and she is not thrilled about this because she can tell he doesn't know what he's doing. But she's also very attracted to him, and he is very attracted to her, and so sparks are flying.

So, the scene that I'm going to read is he, Max has been there for a couple of weeks. He has discovered that being a commoner is a lot of hard work. He's currently working on helping to saw timber. So they have like a big tree trunk and they're trying to saw it into planks. And 13 year old assistant Oliver Chow is very unhappy.

When Max's hand [00:03:00] slipped, Oliver let out a great string of curses. First in Chinese and then in English. Ending with, Why do I have to work with a child? The Viscount in Max wanted to snarl back. He tempered that, and huffed out as politely as he could, I apologize. The youth glared at him. Why are you even here?

You don't know the first thing about carpentry. If he had to respond to that, Max just might quit the report altogether. He climbed from the pit instead, ignoring Oliver's question. I need water. Miss Preston, he noticed, was watching the exchange from her work table inside the shop, where she patiently chiseled a shutter pull into its proper shape.

She looked down quickly, as if she did not want to be caught. Max rattled the water pitcher noisily against the cup as he poured himself a drink. If he had to suffer through pure manual labor, he at least wanted to keep Miss Preston's attention. My father thinks you are a thief, [00:04:00] Oliver said from his seat on the timber.

Oh, does he? Max considered this. On the one hand, he wasn't fool enough to think Mr. Chow believed he had any experience in carpentry. On the other, he didn't want anyone wondering about where he had come from or why he was at Northfield Hall. Why haven't I stolen anything yet, then? Oliver clearly hadn't considered this and pulled an answer out of thin air.

Perhaps you're waiting for the new moon so you can sneak into the house in the dark and slit everyone's throats. Really, Oliver. Miss Preston shook her head, readjusting the clamp of her vice. Max expected her to chastise the boy's manners, but instead she said, Then he would be a thief and a murderer. Max smiled.

He couldn't help it. She was funny. Gulping down the water, he refilled the cup and sauntered over to her table. It is true that I am a thief. Setting the cup beside her, he winked. However, I am only here to steal Miss Preston's heart. [00:05:00] She rolled her eyes. Her cheeks were already flushed from the heat, so Max couldn't quite tell if she flushed, too.

But he liked to think she did. Before Oliver could respond, Spencer ran up to the workshop. Oliver, Father wants to show you how to frame the floor. With less enthusiasm, he said to Max, You're to stay here and help Miss Preston with the shutters. An order Max could accept with no qualms. He waited for Oliver and Spencer to disappear onto the path to the cottage site, then turned to his instructors.

I am at your service, Miss Preston. Her eyes, he noticed, had roamed downwards, examining the sweat soaking through his coat, perhaps, admiring the wrinkle of his muscles, he hoped. You may remove your jacket if you like. Now her cheeks definitely blazed. It is too hot to stand on ceremony. Max could have taken that opening and turned it into something naughty and delicious.

Invite her to strip to her [00:06:00] smock, or offer to remove as many clothes as she liked. He restrained himself to a mere eyebrow raise and shrugged out of his coat. He hung it on a peg beside one of the saws. He removed his necktie, too, so that he wore only his waistcoat and shirt above his torso. Still too many clothes, but his skin breathed a little easier with fewer layers.

Miss Preston pretended not to watch him. She stripped off her leather work gloves to take up the cup of water. Max noticed the strength in her fingers as they flashed through the air. In a ballroom, they would look mannish. In the workshop, they were competent. She drank the water in long, slow sips. Her eyes closed with pleasure.

Her throat moved in greedy gulps. When she finished, her tongue darted out to lick a stray bead of water from her lips. Never had Max found a simple act so arousing. This time, when their eyes met, Miss Preston didn't flush. She held his gaze, and an [00:07:00] eyebrow tilted in a challenge. One Max recognized. He could kiss her, if he wanted to.

Max retreated to the stool beside the work table. You did not join your father in London. No. Miss Preston returned her attention to the chisel. Lightly, as if there was no chemistry fizzling between them, she added, I am not interested in the marriage mart at the moment. And of course there is no other reason for a woman such as myself to go to London.

Of course. Max did wonder about her marriage prospects. Lord Preston carried enough of a reputation himself. His daughters would be limited to the Whigs, who didn't mind a radical in the family. Max couldn't imagine any of his peers offering for Miss Preston if they discovered her interest in carpentry.

They would take one look at the wood shavings clinging to her cuffs and leave the room. Their loss, of course. Max wasn't sure he could imagine Miss Preston in an evening gown, much less recognize her in one. She wouldn't [00:08:00] be herself without a block of wood in her hand. There are the shutters to complete anyway, he continued.

I've been meaning to ask, by the way, how you became such an expert joiner. Surely Lord and Lady Preston did not encourage such a hobby. I am useful to Northfield Hall. Papa has no objection to that. Miss Preston adjusted her position to better angle her chisel against the wood. Martin Chow began his apprenticeship here a decade ago now, and since he is like an older brother to me, I followed him.

Curiosity at first, I suppose, and then very quickly I found it much more interesting than anything in the schoolroom. Max had been curious about carpentry, too. Only when his father had discovered him following the workers about, the Earl had set Max to twice as many hours with his tutors, and lectured the groundsman on letting the heir do common tasks.

I have heard quite a few theories about you, Miss Preston said, chipping away at her chisel. Mrs. Chow thinks you are a common [00:09:00] criminal who is too afraid to admit what felony you committed. Others speculate you are a spy, here to uncover how Northfield Hall is so profitable. My brother Nate is convinced you are a pirate who has followed a treasure map to our property.

Pausing, she lifted an eyebrow at Max. Nate is taken with all things to do with the Navy, I'm afraid. He tried to project confidence. Nonchalance, even. Mr. Sims would not be alarmed by such accusations because he knew he had done nothing wrong. He was only an ex criminal trying to earn enough money to return to Norwich.

To which theory do you subscribe? Max heard how his tongue didn't quite sound calm. There was a defensiveness in it. Miss Preston paused, chisel hovering over her wood, to reply, I should like to believe you tell the truth, Mr. Sims. That is the magic of Northfield Hall, after all. We believe in each other, and forgive each other our sins.

Of course, [00:10:00] that is easier to do if we know what each other's sins are. As if Max would confess his black heart to her, simply because she asked. He scoffed. Is that it? I thought the magic of Northfield Hall was money in everyone's greedy little palms. Now Miss Preston set down her tool altogether. I have agitated you.

No, but she had. And since she had noticed, Max had to do something about it. Find some excuse for why her line of questioning upset him, without getting anywhere near the truth. I do believe you, Mr. Sims. There is nothing sinister in claiming to have some carpentry experience in order to get a job. I dare say I would lie too, if I needed wages in a scrape.

I was only teasing when I mentioned what everyone else was thinking. She was too good hearted for him. Max hated to have her believe the best in him. One day, she would discover the truth, that he had been lying to her this whole time. And he hated to think she was willingly blindfolding herself to the hints everyone else saw.[00:11:00]

At the very least, he didn't want her to feel a fool for flirting with him. You have not agitated me, Miss Preston, he reiterated. It is only that I do have something to confess to you. A transgression for which I hope you might forgive me. Oh, one word rippled between them. She swallowed, her hands stilled in the midst of brushing shavings from the table onto the floor, and she looked at him in such a way that changed the temperature in the air.

Again, Max knew. He could kiss her. He could take her in his arms, lay her across the shutters, and relish in the sweet heat of her lips. If he wanted to. Which was why he had to confess this lie, tell her he was promised to another, because one day, soon, he hoped, Miss Preston would find out who Max really was.

It would be easier for both of them, if there was no kiss. He opened his mouth to confess to his fictional sweetheart. Except before he could speak, Miss [00:12:00] Preston slid from the work table and stepped before him. With him still on the stool, she was almost exactly the same height as him. It's only Before you do, I just, she grabbed him by the waistcoat, and instead of finishing her sentence, she kissed him.

[00:12:19] Michael : Alright, thanks, that was great.

[00:12:21] Katherine Grant: Thank you.

[00:12:22] Michael : Yeah, I really love that you read a section from Max's perspective. I think he's one of the most interesting characters you've ever written. He's so, uh, unlike other characters that you've written in that he's more of an alpha, and actually kind of a villain at the beginning of the book.

So, can you talk about what some of the challenges are in writing a character that is different from your day to day? Characters that you usually write.

[00:12:53] Katherine Grant: Hmm, I did set out to make Max as alpha as possible, which does not come naturally [00:13:00] to me. And so I did find him. Difficult to write and I remember with this book rewriting the first I really rewrote all parts of it many times Like the same general beats were happening, but I had different things like at some point I had their first kiss in the woods at some point.

I had their first kiss like in the middle of a Little near the well, I just, I really had to rewrite it a lot because I didn't completely understand when he would be vulnerable and when he needed to not be vulnerable. I think my instinct when I'm writing characters is that they know that they're vulnerable and they are not trying to hide that they're vulnerable or they are, my characters tend to trust each other a lot and Max doesn't trust very many people and so I had to Rewrite a lot of scenes where he was being too trusting and I had to kind of pull that back

[00:13:57] Michael : And the the initial decision, to make [00:14:00] him as alpha as possible where did that come from?

Was that did you see that as sort of necessary for the story that you wanted to tell?

[00:14:07] Katherine Grant: Well, I knew I wanted him to be the person investigating Northfield Hall. And I think the decision about the Alpha was a little bit of a creative challenge to myself because I had been writing enough historical romances at that point to discover that my natural tendency is cinnamon roll heroes, or at least heroes who are very vulnerable in their own point of view.

And whereas the alpha hero... everyone is a vulnerable person, but the alpha hero won't even admit it to themselves until, like, the end of the book. So, I think that was paired with, like, I knew that he was coming in with this, like, kind of villainous, And I think that was his goal of writing the report and being very arrogant and thinking that he knew it was right.

And so I think, I wanted to try writing an alpha hero and it [00:15:00] served this story to try it here.

[00:15:04] Michael : And it was very successful. Thank you. Do you think that like when you when you give yourself a bigger challenge do you end up feeling more satisfied with the work? That's kind of a leading question, but

[00:15:17] Katherine Grant: I think if I'm explicitly going in with a challenge, sometimes I'm less satisfied with the work because I'm more, I'm more like specific about what I wanted to do.

I do feel I enjoy writing more when I know I'm writing against. a specific question or creative challenge. So this past fall, I put out Three Nights with Her Husband, which is a novella. And for that, I set myself this creative challenge, I guess? Where I was only allowed to write about the road trip as it happened at night.

So there's nothing about their daytimes. I mean, there's a little, like, this is what happened in the daytime, but it's only a sentence or two. I couldn't have scenes set in the daytime. [00:16:00] And part of that was when I'm really in the midst of just drafting, sometimes it's easy to just be like, okay. What happened next?

Well, they woke up and then they had breakfast and just kind of like chronicling the day and then that's kind of a trap that I fall into. So it was a little bit to help me get out of that feeling like I was in that trap. And then that was very challenging. To have everything that needed to happen in these specific scenes and it also put a time frame on the story And I think that serves the story when you're just reading it because you know, it's three nights and so, you know, you have that in your head, but There's like a ticking bomb on the story timeline, but It helps me feel fresher and not that sometimes it's like, okay, now I need to sit down and write another story about people falling in love.

So when I have a creative challenge or a question like with the Prestons, each book is kind of a question about what does it mean to live with strong principles. So when I know what [00:17:00] that question is, it helps me think, okay, that's what I'm kind of curious about. And I'm using the metaphor of a romantic love story to explore that.

[00:17:11] Michael : Very interesting. Reminds me, so I think , I hear a lot about artists in different mediums being inspired by sort of constraints. I was watching an interview with the, the singer Caroline Polachek, who's one of my favorites right now. And she was talking about how she put all, imposed all these arbitrary constraints on herself on her new album.

Like she wanted to write a song that had orchestra hits that sounded sort of natural and without any irony. That was a difficult thing to pull off. I noticed that a lot in, in your writing how there's sort of the constraint of the romance genre needing to follow certain conventions, but the challenge of you know, you're telling stories from this new [00:18:00] perspective the, something like Northfield Hall is very unique I think.

Backing up a little bit, what, what is it that drew you to romance as a genre to begin with?

[00:18:12] Katherine Grant: I have always loved the love story in any media that I am consuming. Like, when, like, Disney movies. In any novel, I'm drawn to the love story. In any movie, I'm drawn to the love story. In any music, I'm always attuned to the lyrics that are about love stories.

Even like, going to tour historic places. Being interested in, okay, who fell in love here? It's always just been like a natural inclination for me. It's the thing that is most interesting to me. But for a long time, I felt that there was That it wasn't meaningful to write love stories. I felt that I needed to be writing more "important" things.

And [00:19:00] so I think, like, I started writing when I was, I wrote my first novel when I was 12. And in high school, the stories I was writing were very driven by love. And then in college, when I was studying creative writing formally, I felt that I could not have love in the stories. And it was a huge struggle to write because I didn't have the natural momentum.

But it wasn't until I was in my late 20s was when I really started reading romance. And then I still had this like, but I can't write that. Until I was You know, we've just gotten married and I had some, I've been in my day job for a while and I was feeling like I was at a point where I didn't have a lot of control over it and I was about to be kind of pushed onto a path that I didn't really want to be on.

And so I thought, well, maybe... with the romance category, you can be an independent author and have success and have control over your career. And so I, I knew that I could write a romance [00:20:00] because I love romances. And then I could pair it with a type of career that I want. So, I decided to try it.

[00:20:07] Michael : Cool. Yeah everyone loves a love story.

They, they are in everything as you said. But, yeah, there's this specific category of romance that gets treated differently. But Yeah, it's in most of the fiction that we enjoy. Yeah. What I, what I find really interesting about romance is somebody who has had very little exposure to the genre, pretty much only through you and through observing your interactions with the community and the things that you tell me about and reading your books.

I really like that the romance community loves to talk about tropes and like what, what are your favorite tropes? What tropes are in this book that I just read and every genre has tropes. Everything that you read is, is made up of tropes, but I think it's cool that you talk about it and [00:21:00] analyze it and that you

[00:21:06] Katherine Grant: Yeah, and sort of being like, Oh, I'm going to defy all these things and write the romance novel that's never been written. Yeah. That's not even what readers want. Readers want something that's predictable, which is one of my challenges.

[00:21:17] Michael : And you can still be creative while. faLling into the the formula or the tropes.

Even formula, I think, doesn't have to be a negative word.

[00:21:27] Katherine Grant: Right. Everything follows some sort of formula. Yeah. I think what you were saying before about artists setting themselves constraints. One thing that I love writing the romance genre is that it has this inherent formula and so this inherent constraint where, first of all, there needs to be a happily ever after, which I love.

Second of all. That, you know, we know there are going to be certain progressions throughout of when we'll see the characters kind of come together and [00:22:00] creatively that frees me. The writer, Olivia Waite, has written about how the romance novel. In other genres, each time a novel is written, the novel has to redefine itself and ask the question of what is this story?

What is the shape of the story? Where does the story end? And so with romance, you don't have to ask those questions because you know it, so you can free up that energy to ask different questions and explore different things. Yeah. And then in terms of setting constraints, I think about this with the show How I Met Your Mother.

I think they were very inventive in setting themselves. Constraints like the story where the pineapple up to two AM and I just feel like they were constantly being like, okay, we're going to tell this episode from a different story format and it kept things fresh. And I think in Buffy the Vampire Slayer you see that as well.

These are all created by Wesleyan alumni and you went to Wesleyan.

... .

I really do think there's some sort of like Wesleyan teaches [00:23:00] things that way. But I also. I'm stealing that idea because I think it provides for more longevity because you're still working within the ascribed format. For them, it's a TV episode.

For me, it's a romance novel, but I can find new ways to feel fresh and find new angles to it.

[00:23:19] Michael : Yeah, it's very interesting. Do you As you're preparing to write a story, or thinking about a story, do you think about like, the tropes or the specific story beats that you want to hit, or does that sort of arise as you're writing it?

[00:23:38] Katherine Grant: Every novel comes to me different. I do try to think about tropes. With my full length novels, I find it very difficult to say, I'm going to have this trope, and then actually stick to that. The Northfield Hall novellas are a little bit of a creative exercise for me, where I am saying it's going to be this trope, and like, I'll pick like two tropes, and then try to put that into the novella, and see if I can be successful at that.[00:24:00]

I think because I have a lot more going on in the novels, trying to add in a trope specifically, and hit that trope, and do something interesting with it, and do everything else I'm trying to do, Sometimes just makes it such a mess. With the Prestons, each sibling has a different orientation towards the family's lifestyle and beliefs.

And so my main question for each novel is, how does the sibling orient themselves, and how does that change, and what can that tell us about having strong principles, and is it necessary to live by principles, and can you be a good person without strong principles, and can you have two strong principles, and like, that's the like, big question of the series, and so each novel I'm trying to explore that through a different way.

So instead of tropes, that's kind of like the thing, but that said, when I was plotting out the series, I [00:25:00] did say, okay, this is like Nate's book and he's a sailor, so I want it to be kind of Persuasion inspired. And that means it's a second chance romance. And what can I add to this story? So I am interested in the heroine being.

In Persuasion, they go on and on about how Ann Elliot has lost the bloom of her youth. And so in my, I was curious, well, what if she actually isn't just 28 and doesn't look like an 18 year old anymore, but what if she actually has a chronic illness? so That was Those were, like, the things that I added that I knew from, like, before I started writing it, when I started, before I started writing the series, I set up that type of, I guess, a little bit of trope or character information for myself.

[00:25:46] Michael : And thanks for choosing a reference that I know. We recently watched Persuasion. Yes. So, you mentioned Buffy How I Met Your Mother what are some of your other Inspirations outside of romance?

[00:25:58] Katherine Grant: I think [00:26:00] everything that I'm consuming comes out somehow in my writing. Like for example, I just read, not just, but I recently read this pop psychology book from the 70s called Love and Limerence.

Which was one of the first psychological academic studies of what is it to be in love. Really, it was what is it to have a crush on a person. And so, reading that helped me write Letters to Her Love, which is a novella coming out in February. That is very strongly, these two people have a crush on each other, but one of them will admit it and one of them won't.

And so it It kind of was like reading this study of people describing what it felt like to have a crush on somebody was very helpful to me to be like, Oh, yes, I can do this. I can have these people like have a crush on each other. So that's an explicit example. I think, you know, I. Would go back to, like, the things that I watch constantly, which is The [00:27:00] Gilmore Girls and The Office.

I've watched Buffy a lot. You know that I watched Married at First Sight for a while, and that directly inspired The Husband Plot, where two strangers get married.

[00:27:11] Michael : Yes. Makes sense.

[00:27:15] Katherine Grant: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for interviewing me. If you want more content like this, Michael is not going to be in the rest of the episodes, but I will be.

And we have some very exciting episodes lined up for our first month, including authors Erica Ridley, Charlie Lane, Gina Conkle. And more. So make sure that you subscribe to the podcast. And if you'd like to learn more about the Viscount Without Virtue, don't forget to go to the special link in the show notes to grab it for free.

So, thank you so much. Should we end it with a kiss? Sure.